MicroSkills: Navigating the Modern Workplace

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[00:01:11] Well hello there and welcome back to another episode of the Hit Like a Girl podcast.

[00:01:27] This is a show where we get to talk about the 30,000 piece puzzle that makes up healthcare

[00:01:32] and each one of our guests brings in one of their expertise.

[00:01:35] What's the piece of the puzzle that you hold?

[00:01:37] And so today is a very special day.

[00:01:39] We have one returning guest and one new guest and I'm going to let them both introduce

[00:01:44] themselves but let's start with you Dr. Adaira Landry.

[00:01:47] Thank you so much for the invitation to be here.

[00:01:50] I'm a huge fan of the podcast.

[00:01:52] My name is Adaira Landry.

[00:01:53] Dr. Adaira Landry.

[00:01:55] I'm an emergency medicine physician at the Brigham.

[00:01:58] I'm an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School.

[00:02:01] I've been here for about eight years and I focused most of my career on advising and

[00:02:07] mentoring students, residents and fellows.

[00:02:11] So early career professionals in other words.

[00:02:14] Over the last few years I've started writing on my own and with other people like Dr.

[00:02:19] Risa E. Lewis who's here today about the workplace and we sort of set a journey

[00:02:24] a couple of years ago to take that to another level from writing articles to writing a book

[00:02:29] and now we are co-writing, co-authoring micro skills, small actions, big impact together.

[00:02:35] Thank you for that.

[00:02:36] And you Dr. Lewis?

[00:02:37] Hi everybody.

[00:02:38] Also echoing the thank you for the invitation to speak with you today.

[00:02:41] Huge fan of the podcast.

[00:02:43] So I'm an emergency medicine physician, a healthcare designer and I'm committed

[00:02:49] to the written spoken and designed word.

[00:02:52] And what does that mean?

[00:02:53] I'm a podcaster, I am a writer.

[00:02:55] I'm also a medical educator and so in the book that we'll discuss, Darin and I really tried

[00:03:01] to help other people figure out how to navigate the workplace quicker, easier, more efficiently

[00:03:08] than we did it.

[00:03:09] Okay.

[00:03:10] So the workplace is a totally different place than it was even just a few years ago

[00:03:14] and you know, I'm sure you guys have a lot of insight but like even the transition

[00:03:18] from going to just the changing work environment and if you're dealing with a lot of young

[00:03:23] younger folks, how are they handling it?

[00:03:25] It's something I've thought about for a while of just like, can you imagine, you know, schooling

[00:03:30] from home and then trying to get into the corporate world or business world and then

[00:03:36] adjusting to the culture?

[00:03:37] Like they must have a really tough time.

[00:03:40] Do you have any examples of what and I'm just throwing it out there but I'm sure

[00:03:44] that you must know some folks that are young and entering the workforce.

[00:03:48] Like how are they managing?

[00:03:49] What are some of the struggles they face?

[00:03:51] So yeah, part of my job is that I advise first through fourth year medical students and so

[00:03:56] they are largely Gen Z.

[00:03:58] Many of them as you said spent most of their college experience virtual or large part of

[00:04:04] it virtual.

[00:04:05] And so I think one of the largest struggles is, you know, and they have a very bare

[00:04:11] perspective but the conflict of does learning have to be in person or not?

[00:04:15] Like can you be effectively engaged and learning while not physically present?

[00:04:21] And there's a culture clash and tradition clash of what we've always done, which is a

[00:04:26] phrase that both Rhys and I feel like is a toxic phrase because it's basically saying

[00:04:31] we've always done it this way so we have to continue doing it this way.

[00:04:35] And so I think that's a theme coming up over and over again.

[00:04:38] Do I have to actually be in class?

[00:04:41] And so I think the workplace equivalent with that would be is, you know, do I

[00:04:45] have to show up for work?

[00:04:46] Can I just do it remotely?

[00:04:48] And it's still as effective.

[00:04:50] We in writing this book beta tested it with a full range of readers and we didn't know

[00:04:58] how it was going to sit with some of our high school readers, some of our college

[00:05:01] readers, some of our just entering the workplace readers.

[00:05:04] And in a very positive reaffirming way, everybody said wow, like we didn't know

[00:05:09] this.

[00:05:10] Wow, no one taught us this.

[00:05:11] So there are influences of social media as Adair just shared about you know where

[00:05:16] learning needs to occur, how it should occur, the mediums by what should

[00:05:20] occurs, everything has changed.

[00:05:22] And so learning these skills, breaking it down into small pieces and making it

[00:05:27] doable for the listener, the reader, the audience is something that we think

[00:05:32] will ring true and feel doable, not overwhelming to Gen Zers.

[00:05:37] I mean, I always think about like, well, how is it done?

[00:05:41] When you look back on your how much you've accomplished and all of the big

[00:05:45] goals that you might have as an individual, you know, for yourself or

[00:05:48] for your classmates or whatnot.

[00:05:50] And you just think like, well, how do you do it?

[00:05:52] It's really step by step.

[00:05:53] You just do it one piece at a time.

[00:05:56] So can we talk about micro skills and how do you define them?

[00:06:01] And what are some examples of micro skills?

[00:06:03] We could ask this question a lot like how do you define it?

[00:06:05] And people are like, well, it sounds like what it is.

[00:06:07] And in one way it sounds like what it is.

[00:06:10] But our perspective comes from being emergency medicine physicians where

[00:06:14] we're given these large tasks like, you know, someone comes in,

[00:06:18] they've cut their scalp and initially when you're in training,

[00:06:21] you're like, OK, go fix that.

[00:06:22] Go fix the wound.

[00:06:24] And there are so many steps involved in that process.

[00:06:27] So we translated that to navigating the workplace and taking

[00:06:31] something big, seemingly insurmountable and breaking it down

[00:06:35] into small doable steps.

[00:06:36] So small, concrete, fundamental building blocks,

[00:06:40] fundamental building blocks that are additive, that are translatable,

[00:06:45] that help people get their larger goals accomplished,

[00:06:48] habits incorporated and projects done.

[00:06:51] And the way we approach this book,

[00:06:53] sort of speaking back to what Risa said on those early meetings,

[00:06:56] you know, we spent a good amount of time before we were even writing

[00:07:00] the first word of the book, just learning what the table of contents

[00:07:04] should look like.

[00:07:06] And we tried to make it a comprehensive so that it wasn't just

[00:07:10] on one focused topic, but it was really a great guide

[00:07:15] that holistically supported the employee.

[00:07:17] And we also tried to put it in order of maybe not necessarily

[00:07:21] importance, I mean, importance is one word, but also like how

[00:07:24] like the order of operations were that, you know, you could first have

[00:07:27] to do this and then this and then this.

[00:07:28] So there is some flow to it.

[00:07:30] I just want to review some of the larger themes of the book.

[00:07:33] So we opened with micro skills for self care because to us,

[00:07:37] you know, everything begins with the self.

[00:07:39] You have to be in a good spot before you start worrying about

[00:07:42] networking or building your brand like you, you as a physical,

[00:07:45] emotional, cognitive person needs to be well for, you know, well.

[00:07:49] And then we move on to managing a task list and polished communication

[00:07:53] and building your reputation.

[00:07:55] These are just like some basic fundamental things about building

[00:07:57] who you are as an individual employee.

[00:08:00] And then we move on to managing, I'm sorry, becoming a subject matter

[00:08:03] expert, learning your workplace culture, becoming a team player.

[00:08:08] And then we finally move on to some more complex and higher level

[00:08:12] thinking skills, growing your network, which is often a challenge,

[00:08:16] navigating conflict and then end with actively finding new opportunities,

[00:08:20] which seems like it's a great chapter to end on.

[00:08:22] Well, I love all of that and I'd love to like dive in a little bit more,

[00:08:25] but I keep thinking about these are the types of skills that you might

[00:08:29] not get in your formal education and training, you know, like you might

[00:08:33] be going to med school or to law school or getting that, you know,

[00:08:37] your MBA, but this is not necessarily things that will absolutely be useful

[00:08:41] to you, but you don't really get a class in them.

[00:08:44] And so yeah, do you want to do want to comment on that?

[00:08:47] Yeah, importantly, we say this is the book we wish we had been given

[00:08:51] to read when we were starting out.

[00:08:52] It's both of us for some overlapping and some different

[00:08:56] and some of the same experiences.

[00:08:58] We were left feeling like, how did you know how to do that?

[00:09:02] Or like who told you how did you, you know, it's almost like

[00:09:05] the playbook sports reference hit like a girl.

[00:09:08] You know, some people seem to get the playbook and knew how

[00:09:11] to navigate the workplace seamlessly.

[00:09:14] And some of us it took a little while.

[00:09:16] Now we got there, you know, but gosh, let's make it easier for other people.

[00:09:20] Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us rely on sort of on the job training,

[00:09:24] but I think we sort of took that content that those experiences,

[00:09:28] those lessons learned and put it to, you know, on the page or in the book

[00:09:31] learning. And so it's really just a series,

[00:09:34] a collection of our personal experiences, all of these micro skills.

[00:09:39] And, you know, in between any chapter, there might be, you know, seven to 11

[00:09:44] or so micro skills. There's a lot of content, but all of these are topics

[00:09:48] that Rhys and I have experienced personally because we open each

[00:09:52] of the micro skills with a vignette that really lands on the idea of we get it.

[00:09:57] We have needed this micro skill at one point in time.

[00:10:00] We didn't have this micro skill at one point in time.

[00:10:02] So just really grounded in the real world, you know, application.

[00:10:06] I'd like to start with the micro skills and the self care.

[00:10:09] Can we talk about that a little bit deeper?

[00:10:11] And I will share with you, you know, I live in Mexico, I live in Baja, California.

[00:10:16] So I had some friends visit me this last weekend and that means they arrive

[00:10:21] on Friday and they leave on Sunday and there's traffic.

[00:10:25] Like there's a huge amount of traffic that crosses the border specifically

[00:10:30] at those times. A lot of people are coming from California down for a week

[00:10:33] into Mexico. It's really common theme.

[00:10:36] And I'm thinking about the micro skill of maintaining a positive attitude

[00:10:40] while driving so that when there are a million people on the road

[00:10:45] and preventing yourself from having road rage or like letting the person,

[00:10:49] you know, in when it you really don't want to or not letting yourself

[00:10:53] become totally overwhelmed with either impatience or anger or frustration

[00:10:58] at like the situation of like that micro skill of just

[00:11:03] maintaining peace in what might not be a very peaceful moment.

[00:11:08] Does that ring any true for anything as far as any of the skills?

[00:11:11] What would you call that?

[00:11:12] I think what you're describing is micro school number seven

[00:11:15] offloading routine tasks that bring, you know, joy or purpose.

[00:11:19] I mean, for me, if it's something mandatory, there is work that we have to do

[00:11:23] that no matter what, we can't take off our plate, right?

[00:11:26] Like I can list things from within my house, like changing diapers.

[00:11:30] I have to change diapers for my kids.

[00:11:32] Like I can't not do that even though it's not like a fun activity.

[00:11:36] And same thing with work.

[00:11:37] Like I can't not check my inbox, my emails, but things that are optional.

[00:11:42] We really highlight that in this chapter, which I think most of us can

[00:11:46] understand that there's going to be a point in time when we have

[00:11:49] voluntarily taken some sort of project or task or responsibility on

[00:11:55] that ultimately is really painful for us and can ruin the moment to the day or year.

[00:12:02] And so, you know, we address that in this chapter.

[00:12:04] I think in your specific case, I don't know how mandatory it is

[00:12:08] for you to pick your friends up from the airport versus suggesting they take

[00:12:11] and some sort of a taxi or shuttle.

[00:12:13] But maybe there's a compromise where they meet you halfway or something.

[00:12:16] But just being mindful of the fact that you don't have to continuously

[00:12:21] live life suffering, especially if there's room to change.

[00:12:24] I'll add and jump in that.

[00:12:26] So say there is no other option you do have to drive.

[00:12:28] And I wonder if you have been the recipient of friends who arrive

[00:12:33] frazzled having done the trip to come visit you and it takes them a while to unwind.

[00:12:37] You know, we're all human and we all have biologic needs.

[00:12:41] And so in that first chapter of micro skills for self in that first chapter

[00:12:45] of micro skills for self care, we actually talk about eating like eating

[00:12:50] food on a regular basis.

[00:12:52] We talk about sleeping.

[00:12:53] We talk about the importance of movement and exercise.

[00:12:57] So, you know, all of us are going to feel the full range of the emotions.

[00:13:02] And I think the part that we can determine is how we express those emotions

[00:13:08] or how we react to situations.

[00:13:10] So I know that when I'm fed and when I'm when I'm slept, my control

[00:13:16] and when I've done some yoga sessions, like my control is very different

[00:13:19] than when those things have been abandoned or put put away, put to

[00:13:23] the side. So in that chapter, we talk a lot about taking care of the physical

[00:13:28] self, the mental self, the emotional self, the community self.

[00:13:32] And so because we believe everything starts with self care and the self,

[00:13:36] you're then in a better place to work with teammates, take care of the work.

[00:13:41] And in this case, the work is driving that car to arrive at your friend's

[00:13:44] house fresh. Well, I just get curious if like some people are just

[00:13:48] committed to road rage.

[00:13:49] I'm the kind of person that has road rage.

[00:13:51] I've heard people say that before and I'm just like, Oh, I feel like

[00:13:54] that's the opposite of a micro skill.

[00:13:56] Like that's it because it would be really good to be able to manage.

[00:14:01] Like, you know that there's going to be traffic.

[00:14:03] You don't have to suffer through it.

[00:14:05] You don't have to be in a terrible mood.

[00:14:07] And sometimes it's just a matter of adjusting the hour through which you drive.

[00:14:11] I mean, a lot of it is like realizing where is the point of flexibility

[00:14:15] and how you can change that environment?

[00:14:17] So maybe you don't leave during a high traffic time and you leave off hours.

[00:14:22] Maybe you carpool so that there's someone there to talk with you.

[00:14:25] I mean, what we're trying to teach is this idea of like

[00:14:28] figuring out what your emotional thermometer is at the time.

[00:14:31] What's triggering it and finding simple ways to circumvent it?

[00:14:34] Well, let's address some of the vignettes that you guys that

[00:14:37] were your personal experiences.

[00:14:39] So what were some of the lessons that were deep for you

[00:14:43] that you felt like you needed to share and kind of transition to supporting

[00:14:47] the community or teams or whatnot?

[00:14:49] And, Risa, let's start with you.

[00:14:51] Well, I'll give like the 30,000 foot view and just say, you know,

[00:14:54] for people that haven't experienced the book yet,

[00:14:57] Adara and I, when we write, there's the first draft.

[00:14:59] There's the as I call it like kneading dough, like you're making bread.

[00:15:03] And there's so many iterations and the iterations of the actual micro skills

[00:15:08] and why it's hard, why it's important and critical actions.

[00:15:12] That's a little different than our personal stories, our vignettes.

[00:15:15] Like to really get them fine tuned and sharpened.

[00:15:19] So they're saying what we want them to say and they're effective in like

[00:15:23] whatever emotion that may have driven the story is kind of worked out.

[00:15:27] And we're able to see here's the lesson or here's the feedback

[00:15:30] or this is why this is actually a really important story.

[00:15:33] That's how we got there.

[00:15:34] And it took a while.

[00:15:36] I'll share one about feedback.

[00:15:38] And I was in a faculty meeting and a specific resident doctor in training

[00:15:43] was talked about and people were saying that she on shift wasn't able

[00:15:47] to complete tasks, would pick up new patients without completing

[00:15:52] and dispositioning the other patients.

[00:15:54] And that really to work with them was not as smooth as faculty would have hoped.

[00:15:59] So I soon thereafter worked a shift with this resident doctor.

[00:16:03] And I really did not provide a stellar feedback performance.

[00:16:08] I basically said, I started the shift.

[00:16:10] I said, OK, today's focus.

[00:16:12] I said, OK, the word for today is focus.

[00:16:15] And the resident was like, what are you talking about?

[00:16:17] And I was like, I really would like you to focus on your patient care.

[00:16:20] Don't worry about picking up new patients if you haven't completed

[00:16:24] the patients who already are holding.

[00:16:25] And I was just and it came out of nowhere.

[00:16:28] The resident doctor clearly had not gotten feedback from the people

[00:16:33] that probably should have been giving it.

[00:16:35] And I gave no context.

[00:16:37] I gave no warning.

[00:16:38] It was the beginning of a shift.

[00:16:40] And I think she was just flabbergasted and I wasn't mean.

[00:16:44] I was more trying to be encouraging and focus.

[00:16:46] And yeah, so like I would call it an epic flop.

[00:16:50] And you know, going forward and in learning more about giving feedback

[00:16:55] and having been the recipient of a lot of feedback in my professional life,

[00:16:59] you know, you want to set the person up.

[00:17:02] You want to make sure that everybody feels psychologically safe

[00:17:05] and the actual location works.

[00:17:08] You have to ask permission to provide that feedback.

[00:17:12] And then, you know, one of the things I found very effective is role playing.

[00:17:16] We talk about a personal board of directors.

[00:17:17] I love role playing with members of my personal board of directors

[00:17:20] before I'm going to have a feedback conversation.

[00:17:23] I'm going to agree with everything that Risa said.

[00:17:25] That's all just great advice.

[00:17:27] And I think it sort of speaks to the idea that everything that we share,

[00:17:31] there's a there's a vignette or a personal touch to it

[00:17:33] because we really did experience all these things.

[00:17:35] For me, my favorite is learn what your supervisors expect of you.

[00:17:40] This is just my favorite for today.

[00:17:41] If you ask me something tomorrow, it would be different.

[00:17:43] And so, you know, a few years ago, I went to this lecture,

[00:17:46] there was a seminar and the speaker was pretty senior male faculty member.

[00:17:52] And he talked about how when he was in like a training year,

[00:17:56] like a fellowship year, he and his co-fellow were tasked with planning

[00:18:00] webinars or not webinars, seminars.

[00:18:03] And he took a approach where he just sent out like a very basic email

[00:18:09] and said, you know, this is the time location.

[00:18:12] I'll see you there and ordered like pizza and water kind of thing.

[00:18:16] And his co-fellow took a very different approach

[00:18:19] and had like formatted, beautiful invitations

[00:18:23] and RSVP lists and ordered artisanal food

[00:18:28] and all these sorts of specialized things.

[00:18:30] And it was just a lot more over the top.

[00:18:33] He didn't take that route because he knew that his supervisor didn't care

[00:18:35] that all that work was being done.

[00:18:37] Instead, he was doing research, giving talks, writing grants.

[00:18:41] Like those are the things that his supervisor cared about.

[00:18:44] That was the currency.

[00:18:45] And obviously there's a lot to talk about in terms of the gender

[00:18:48] between the two and who had access to mentorship that provided him that insight.

[00:18:52] But aside from that, which is a very important still important,

[00:18:56] a very important topic still, he knew what to do and he did that work.

[00:19:00] And that's what got him the job and not her.

[00:19:02] I thought it was a very important thing

[00:19:04] because you really do want to know what is expected of you

[00:19:07] no matter what generation you are.

[00:19:10] I think everyone needs to know when you're brought onto a team

[00:19:13] why you're being brought on and what they're expecting you to do.

[00:19:16] So neither one of them were given to they were basically assigned

[00:19:19] the same task and they just took totally different approaches.

[00:19:22] But it was the same supervisor.

[00:19:25] So one knew what they wanted and what the expectation

[00:19:27] and probably over delivered in a way.

[00:19:30] But exactly.

[00:19:31] Yeah, exactly.

[00:19:33] Actually, I just heard the term over efforting.

[00:19:36] So putting in too much effort, which could then be looked down upon.

[00:19:39] Right? You're just like, oh, you wasted time or you wasted.

[00:19:42] I think if you're putting effort into the things that are valuable,

[00:19:45] then it might be respected.

[00:19:46] I think the issue here is a lot of women, especially,

[00:19:50] do what's also called non-promotable task and non-promotable work

[00:19:54] in things that don't add lines to your CV.

[00:19:57] Don't get you invited to speak or it doesn't end up in a paper

[00:20:01] or publication of some sort.

[00:20:03] And so to me, that was like the first version of these terms

[00:20:07] I now know over efforting and non-promotable work.

[00:20:10] That's great vocabulary.

[00:20:12] I something that struck me was managing ego effectively.

[00:20:18] And I wanted to hear both of your guys's input on how to do that.

[00:20:22] Because I imagine in your world that that is something that shows up

[00:20:26] in a lot of different rooms and ways.

[00:20:29] And so please share with me and the audience, like, that is an issue.

[00:20:34] Like, how do we manage other folks egos or even our own?

[00:20:38] In this microscope, we talk about confidence and competence.

[00:20:42] And one of the stories shared was my experience where I would work,

[00:20:47] where I would meet with a mentor and she was very, very high up

[00:20:51] in a hospital system where I was working.

[00:20:54] She was not a doctor and she said this and I loved quoting it

[00:20:58] and requoting it.

[00:20:59] And it was in one of our one-on-ones and she was talking about doctors

[00:21:03] and she said, you know, Risa, doctors think they're the smartest persons

[00:21:07] in the room and they often are, but they're not the only smart people

[00:21:11] in the room. Now, I don't think we walk around thinking,

[00:21:15] we meaning the three of us in this conversation, walk around thinking

[00:21:18] that and holding that, but there is an element to the training of medicine

[00:21:22] to the hierarchical reporting structure to, you know, even the way

[00:21:28] Adara has a great story of like walking into an elevator of just

[00:21:32] the way teams function that sets this up.

[00:21:35] And also there is this element of like our decisions are pretty serious

[00:21:39] sometimes life and death decisions.

[00:21:41] So there's this element and people sometimes speak about physicians as having

[00:21:46] the God like complex.

[00:21:48] So we see it and also as women, there is literature talking about

[00:21:54] competence and confidence and how and who gets rewarded for what.

[00:21:58] And even though women are often more competent, they are not

[00:22:03] promoted in the same way that men who are not as competent

[00:22:07] but are highly confident are rewarded.

[00:22:11] And, you know, this refers to some articles in Harvard Business Review

[00:22:14] and some books we've read.

[00:22:16] So it's a little frustrating and also it's important.

[00:22:19] It's important feedback because it can help the reader, the listener,

[00:22:23] the person experiencing our book learn how to navigate the workplace,

[00:22:27] understand the rules, the playbook that we talk about.

[00:22:31] Adara, would you want to share your elevator story?

[00:22:33] Yeah. So that actually falls into a different chapter.

[00:22:36] I think that was read your contract guides, handbooks and HR policies.

[00:22:41] So I was in a surgical service and we were sitting at a table

[00:22:45] and had just finished up what's called pre-rounding.

[00:22:47] So we were just going through our patients on like a slide or something.

[00:22:50] And we got up to actually physically round on the patients.

[00:22:54] And so I was the closest to the door and I walked over to the elevator.

[00:22:59] I was a few steps ahead of the rest of the team,

[00:23:01] just because, like I said, I was closest to the door.

[00:23:03] So I had a little bit of a head start.

[00:23:05] I wasn't thinking anything at that time, just I'm going to the elevator.

[00:23:08] I press the elevator button, I get onto the elevator

[00:23:11] and everyone who was once chatting behind me stopped chatting

[00:23:15] because I had entered the elevator first

[00:23:19] and I was standing in the position where the senior member of the team usually stands.

[00:23:24] And so it was one of those things where I'm just in the elevator looking at them

[00:23:28] and they're out of the elevator looking at me.

[00:23:30] And I'm thinking what is going on?

[00:23:33] And it wasn't until they told me that you're standing in the right in the wrong spot

[00:23:36] that I understood that there was a hierarchy in this team that I was not aware of.

[00:23:41] And it was there's, you know, this reason of like the person pressing the button

[00:23:45] knows which floor to go on to next.

[00:23:47] And it's just easier for them to press the button if they're right next to it.

[00:23:51] So, you know, the culture of that team, it made sense to them, right?

[00:23:54] And whether or not I agreed or disagreed doesn't matter as much

[00:23:58] as I didn't know the culture of the team.

[00:24:01] And so that's another story of like me just saying, OK, well,

[00:24:05] I have my own opinion, my own ego, my own feelings about this.

[00:24:09] But it doesn't matter because I need to do well in this rotation.

[00:24:13] And I have to adapt to the culture here.

[00:24:16] How would you have known that?

[00:24:18] But there's like, oh, yeah.

[00:24:19] So actually they did mention it in there.

[00:24:22] So going back to the micro skill of reading your contract guides,

[00:24:25] handbooks and HR policies, there was like a orientation email

[00:24:29] that was sent out and like one of the fine print lines

[00:24:33] was about the system in which they they round and who gets on first

[00:24:38] and all those sorts of things.

[00:24:38] They actually do mention it in writing, you know, in the email.

[00:24:41] So I missed it. Wow.

[00:24:43] That's a big one.

[00:24:43] I mean, it's a big one and a small one, but interesting just culturally

[00:24:47] that like, oh, I didn't mean to offend anybody, but just by being yourself.

[00:24:52] Well, I think it kind of speaks to perception, right?

[00:24:55] Because they could have seen me do this

[00:24:57] and their thought could have been, oh my God, you know, she has too much

[00:25:01] confidence or ego to just like disregard the rules.

[00:25:05] Right. And and that wasn't the case at all.

[00:25:08] I didn't even know that was a rule.

[00:25:10] And so, you know, ego can sometimes be misinterpreted

[00:25:13] or mislabeled as just someone's making a mistake

[00:25:16] or doesn't know the expectation.

[00:25:18] I feel like there's so much nuance.

[00:25:20] And this is like a real OK.

[00:25:22] How many skill how many micro skills are included in here?

[00:25:25] Because even if somebody doesn't need to learn every single one of them,

[00:25:28] I think all of us could benefit from at minimum a handful,

[00:25:33] if not a scoopful or more.

[00:25:36] It's almost as if we planted this question.

[00:25:40] It's so it's 10 chapters.

[00:25:43] And as Adara said, seven to 11 micro skills within each chapter,

[00:25:47] we intentionally designed it so you don't have to read it cover to cover.

[00:25:51] You can use it as a manual.

[00:25:52] You can go in and focus.

[00:25:54] You're like, oh, gosh, I'm about to run a meeting.

[00:25:56] Let me read about what they wrote micro skills about how to run a meeting

[00:25:59] or I'm going to be giving a talk.

[00:26:02] We have a whole chapter with lots of micro skills on Polish communication.

[00:26:05] So it can be a quick reference and it can be a cover to cover.

[00:26:08] However, the person wants to experience it.

[00:26:11] I'm going to print this out and just have it available for whenever I need it.

[00:26:17] Because even in the conversation around like empathy or pausing before you speak,

[00:26:21] you know, and like having the it's how to show up, right?

[00:26:26] And that's not those are not.

[00:26:27] It's not English class.

[00:26:28] It's not math.

[00:26:29] It's not science.

[00:26:31] It's those soft skills and those soft skills are really, really important

[00:26:34] and they're hard to teach.

[00:26:35] I mean, especially if you don't have the time to sit down and give someone feedback.

[00:26:40] We have a a micro skill on understanding your own body language

[00:26:45] and reading that of others.

[00:26:47] And so, you know, you can imagine if you wanted to teach every single employee

[00:26:51] in your job, finite and actionable feedback about their body language.

[00:26:56] That would take a lot of time.

[00:26:58] And so a lot of that gets ignored.

[00:27:00] And people just assume what they're doing is correct because no one has intervened.

[00:27:04] Well, this is incredible.

[00:27:05] So thank you ladies for the work that you're doing

[00:27:08] and for all of the writing and knowledge and wisdom that you're sharing.

[00:27:13] Is there are there any parting words that you would like to

[00:27:16] have words of wisdom that you'd like to share with our audience?

[00:27:19] I just want to tag the introduction where we start from a place of three things.

[00:27:24] Number one, time is currency and time can only be spent.

[00:27:27] So people should be thoughtful and intentional how and with whom they spend their time.

[00:27:32] We really tried to write this book, taking away the assumptions

[00:27:36] that people are coming from the same starting line.

[00:27:38] So really trying to make it accessible

[00:27:41] and create ways to increase belonging in the workplace.

[00:27:44] And finally, you know, at the end of the day, all of us want education and learning.

[00:27:48] If only it's accessible to everybody.

[00:27:51] I think I want people to know that all large goals or big ambitions that they have

[00:27:57] can be broken down into really small skills.

[00:28:00] And I think that's important because I think many of us know

[00:28:03] that we have some bigger purpose or something that we're aspiring to achieve,

[00:28:07] but really are less sure about how to get there.

[00:28:10] And so we hope that even if the exact goal you want isn't in this book,

[00:28:14] by reading it, you understand the importance of,

[00:28:17] you know, our framework that we're delivering.

[00:28:19] Okay. So when will this book be available and where can we get it?

[00:28:22] And I want to point all of our readers to like,

[00:28:25] we're going to tackle this one in our book club.

[00:28:27] It's happening. I declare.

[00:28:29] Well, thank you for that.

[00:28:30] We appreciate the support.

[00:28:31] It launches April 16th 2024.

[00:28:34] It is available for pre-order now, depending on when this comes out.

[00:28:38] But April 16th is the official launch date.

[00:28:41] And you can buy it anywhere.

[00:28:44] You would buy books regularly, major bookstores.

[00:28:46] Your local bookstores, bookshop.com.

[00:28:49] I mean, you can also check it out from your local library

[00:28:52] by just requesting it being there anywhere else.

[00:28:55] I think that's it.

[00:28:55] All right.

[00:28:56] And if people would like to follow your work or find you online,

[00:29:00] where do you direct them?

[00:29:01] We're on all the major socials, LinkedIn, Instagram, X.

[00:29:07] And we also each have websites.

[00:29:10] And if he just Google our names, you'll find us.

[00:29:12] Great. I will direct our listeners in the show notes.

[00:29:15] Thank you, ladies.

[00:29:16] Thank you.

[00:29:16] I really enjoyed this conversation.

[00:29:18] And I'm excited to share your amazing work with our listeners.

[00:29:22] And I am excited to just like get better

[00:29:25] just by all that you have put together.

[00:29:28] So I'm really, really, really grateful for both of you.

[00:29:31] Thank you so much for the invitation to be here.

[00:29:33] Great conversation.

[00:29:34] Thank you.

[00:29:36] Thanks for listening.

[00:29:37] You can learn more about us or this guest

[00:29:39] by going to our website or visiting us on any of the socials

[00:29:42] with a handle hit like a girl pod.

[00:29:45] Thanks again.

[00:29:45] See you soon.

[00:29:47] Again, thank you so much for listening to the hit

[00:29:49] Like a Girl podcast.

[00:29:50] I am truly grateful for you.

[00:29:52] And I'm wondering if you could do me a quick favor.

[00:29:54] Would you be willing to follow or subscribe to this podcast

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[00:30:01] would you share this episode on your Instagram stories

[00:30:04] or with a friend?

[00:30:05] All of those things help us podcasters out so much.

[00:30:08] I'm the show's host, Joy Rios.

[00:30:10] And I'll see you next time.